[Physics] Physics Digest, Vol 1, Issue 25

[Doug Marett]

Hi Ilja,

   Thanks for the response - I think there could be a problem with
relativity so please hear me out.  Take the following example that I
mentioned earlier shown below:
[image: Inline image 1]
If you image that you have two observers, A and B, and A is higher in a
gravitational potential than B, say on top of a skyscraper, and B is in a
direct vertical line below at the surface. They are situated such that a
set star in sidereal space passes over them at midnight. They then count
the number of days that have elapsed based on the rotation of the earth
with respect to the star. From my reckoning, the two observers, because
they are on a solid body and on a vertical line passing through the center
of the earth, have no choice but to count exactly the same "rate" of time,
so after some very long period of time, they will always agree on how many
days have passed.
However, if we also give both of them atomic clocks that start off
synchronized to sidereal time at the surface, then according to the theory
of relativity (and is known by observation) the atomic clock at observer A
will count faster than observer B's, and also faster than the rate
determined by earth's rotation. After some long period of time, the atomic
clocks will disagree, but the rotational clocks will agree on what time it
is. How can this be? If gravitational time dilation means that "real" time
is passing into the future faster at A than at B, then it should not be
possible to design a clock that is immune to time dilation, but we just
did. Further, it would soon be clear that the atomic clock at observer A
has counted more rotations of the earth than has actually occurred. So it
is clearly in error. Further, if atomic clock A on top of the building was
actually in the future compared to the atomic clock at the base, then if I
walk up the building to clock B and read the time, it implies I am now in
the future. But this does not jibe with the position of the sun (known from
the rotation of the earth). If I use a telescope to then view the clock at
the base (B), I will see that it still reads the same reading in the past
compared to clock A. So I as an observer I have no choice but to conclude
that despite everything that relativity says about clock readings, the top
and bottom of the building still share the same "present" and atomic clock
A  has read in error. So no "real" time dilation can possibly have
occurred. But if this is true, then time dilation, as taught by relativity,
would have to be wrong and the past, present and future do not coexist. Can
you see any way out of this dilemma?

Doug

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Ilja Schmelzer <
ilja.schmelzer at googlemail.com> wrote:

> >  1) an individual standing on the earth would have time progressing
> faster
> > at his head than his feet (due to gravitational time dilation). How can a
> > physical object be in two time frames? When blood flows in your body,
> does
> > it move from the past to the future and vise versa? Seems logically
> > preposterous.
>
> And that's why even in standard GR all these frames play no longer any
> role.  In GR, you have systems of coordinates.
>
> And you have "proper time",  which is a bad English translation of the
> German "Eigenzeit",  sort of "private time" or so, which is simply
> clock time.
>
> Once sufficiently accurate clocks at your foot and your head show
> different results, such is life.  What do you have to object?   It is
> a claim about what some clocks measure.  It has nothing at all to do
> with logic or so.  The philosophical idea that "time is what clocks
> measure" is, of course, to be rejected as positivistic nonsense.
>
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