[Physics] Physics Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5

Fri Dec 7 16:13:50 CET 2018

 Listfolk,
As I indicated in my last post, by career investigations focus has been "general systems".  I started from the vast subjects that are umbrellaed under biology.  By which I mean that I had to familiarize myself with the spectrum of all biological related topics .. from DNA, to organic chemistry, to metabolic mechanism, to simple organisms, to complicated multi-cellular organisms, to collective environments - plant and animal kingdoms, to Darwinian evolution, to anthropology, to sociology, to psychology, to economics, to ecology(ies), to human relations, to animal behaviors, to linguistics~languages, to philosophies, to neurology, to perception~deduction~reasoning~logic, to cultural beliefs, to emotions, to biological intricacies, to conceptionalizations (both irrational and rational), to mathematics and scientific reasoning, complexity, emergence.
And in parallel requirement - fundamental physics, cosmology, inorganic chemistry, thermodynamics, gravity, electromagnetics, quantum mechanics, information theory, symbology, cybernetics, manufacturing, materials science, time theory, fluid mechanics, entropy.  ( I will admit to a few weak spots in my knowledge~comfort zones:  quantum electrodynamics and quantum chromodynamics, the strong force, the weak force, magnetic bipolarity behaviors explanation~justification, math above partial differential equations. maybe one or two other topics that don't jump to mind at the moment).
Anyway - I've always taken it as a given, that a grand "theory of everything" in truth had to be -more- than the Physics goal of a grand-unification of physics phenomena (forces) .. only.
Not many people try to visit learn and understand the relations and properties contained totally and holistically in the human body of knowledge .. it is immense and intimidating and beyond our typical comfort zone of expertise anyone could, would - or even attempt to - claim familiarity and comfort with.  And then analyze differences and similarities of behaviors, performances, correlations: interpretations and translations .. even when terminologies don't yet match or readily correspond.  Even when qualia seem unrelated (eg 'color' experienced - versus scientific-clinical measurements as electromagnetic waves) ; the physics forces as effective real 'phenomena' - in counterpoint to our mathematics (languages) that (hopefully) map and match the existential phenomena ... correctly and accurately.
I have always taken the position that -all- the above (and more, only unintentionally omitted by my casual-among-friends flow of thoughts and writings here to the list) .. are the domain of what we are required to keep in mind and consider at all times, in our searches, analyses and conversations.    Not just present our own personal deductions and reasonings, but -really- read and listen to and give respectful consideration to ideas -not- our own.   Because we have to recognize none of us are total-minds, totally mindful of all details and knowledge of all systems; and that whether correct in the overall or not, that someone else will have had an insight of recognition of some important relation or true phenomena that we personally hadn't considered, or made the mental connection to recognize .. but -need to- to include in the grand consideration we intuitively strive to accomplish.    Whether for personal ego and hopes for fame, or altruistic hopes to add new knowledge for the human progeny and lives who will come after us .. and make their lives in the universe safer, or more fun, or more exciting and accomplished and efficient .. or simply with more enlightened appreciation for this vast mystery:   "existence".

The reason I'm writing this post and sharing my conceptual frame of reference .. really ties in with the recent topic:   action~motivation.
My personal main work has been to gut and dissect conventional thermodynamic entropy concepts .. and to rebuild it as a General Theory of Entroepic Relations ...  -not restricted-  to thermodynamics.   I won't go into my rationale (which hypothesizes that 'entropic relations' are originally found in the dynamic architecture relations of "dimensions", and so are more primitive than the 'fundamental forces' (which in reality enact and display what can be properly called 'entroepic gradients of action potential')).
As the universe enacts all its interaction potentials, and builds emergent tiers and levels of complexity .. something interesting happens.
First, what is retained in all the levels of complexity and systems, are the action activity performance instantiators of essential subatomic and atomic construction fields and forces.   So, some of the 'least action' derives from -inside- the energy~matter the universe is made of.
But, something gets added along the way .. starting at the tier of chemistry and independent co-present atoms and molecules interacting in their shared-spaces.  Influences of action and behaviors start to additionally come from -outside-.   Simultaneously and connectedly.
So, when we discuss the topic of action, motivation, enervation, instantiation ... I hope everyone will remember that dynamics and behaviors are a combination.  Cause and effect  are sourced from the inside of our physical structure, but, concurrently, from many external -outside- phenomena and circumstances .. companion systems .. with interaction potential .. as well.
Our universe is complicated and convoluted; direct and concurrently indirect.  Humans behave on reliable confirmed data and information; but systems react to inferences, to unconfirmed potential data; to hopes ..  and even to false data (presented or expected as .. 'truth'.)
This is an important flexible adaptive mental frame of reference .. that I've always felt it useful to keep in mind as I've explored the world and knowledge and experience.  Opportunity spaces for variable actions is just as important as noise-free exactness.  A 'perfect theory' has to account for and justify 'imperfection' as a part of real existence also.     ;-)
Anyway .. my main point .... causal 'forces' reside both 'inside' -and- come from 'outside' as well.   

Happy thought-trails, everyone!!!!
JamesDec 7, 2018

======

    On Friday, December 7, 2018, 1:23:58 AM PST, Ruud Loeffen <rmmloeffen at gmail.com> wrote:  

 Hello James, Tufail, Doug  et al.
Interesting ideas about the cause of motions. These ideas relate lately mostly to fluid dynamics and the characteristics of a "field". In collaboration we will find the truth. I see around me a big change in how a group of physicists and scholars now is working together by commenting and trying really to understand somebodies ideas. It is very nice to be a part of this development. I feel that there is something important going on. Indeed: Interesting to read: http://alternativephysics.org/book/ElectricFields.htm 
Bernard Burchell A free on-line book containing classical alternatives to modern physics theory.Let's continue.

Best regards.
Ruud Loeffen.
On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 2:45 PM James Rose <integrity at prodigy.net> wrote:

 Tufail, Doug, et al,

I've been involved with General Systems Theory since the early 1970s. In the late 1990's after presenting a paper on re-defining entropy as a general primal property .. gradient .. that is primally present in all fields phenomena (versus being a mysterious secondary product of the interactions of the conventionally defined '4 fundamental forces'),  one of the then-elder statesman of the systems organization putting on the conference at Asilomar CA, came up to me afterwards and made the simple statement to me ...  "You are on the right track of investigation, Jamie, but the key is something you didn't discuss in your paper :   'least action'.   You have to identify, discuss, and justify the differential pressure that accounts for motion and action .. what CONDITIONS or RELATIONS .. that are essentially present in the dimensional architecture of physical~phenomenal existence."
Sage remarks.   He and I never spoke again, and he passed away in the years since then.  But he was right.  

Even in the Standard model, even in susy (supersymetry), even in QM ... there is no directed conversation that justifies, explains, or accounts for motion and action PRIOR to the so-called 'fundamental forces'.
A massive re-modelling of physics is required in order to see deeper into the "dynamic architecture" of physical existence .. on ALL SCALES together.
JamesDec 6, 2018

===========
    On Thursday, December 6, 2018, 11:08:25 PM PST, Tufail Abbas <tufail.abbas at gmail.com> wrote:  

 Tom, Actually bernard following proposal is exactly in accordance with my ideas cause of all motion....
"This substance is continuously and perpetually generated within charged particles and moves away......."

This is the first instant that I saw a  proposal similar to my ideas about cause of motion,  being made by somebody else other than me. So I meant  to ask : How to experimentally prove this? Tufail 

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018, 02:47 carmam at tiscali.co.uk <carmam at tiscali.co.uk wrote:

Tufail, Bernard is speculating here as shown by the opening statement "Could an electric field be a similar phenomenon?  Could what we describe as an electric field be in fact, not just be an abstract mathematical entity, but an actual flow of material that moves outward from a charge and imparts a force on other charges when it hits them?"He also uses the word hypothesis.He has some excellent ideas, and most of his work is based on fact. When he does diverge from fact he lets the reader know.

Tom.

----Original Message----
From: tufail.abbas at gmail.com
Date: 06/12/2018 17:05 
To: <carmam at tiscali.co.uk>, "General Physics and Natural Philosophy discussion list"<physics at tuks.nl>
Subj: Re: [Physics] Physics Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5

Tom,

I was just going through the book of Alternative Physics through your provided link , and I came across the chapter of Electric Field and this hypothesis. The Electric Field Hypotheses:

Each charged particle generates something called ‘field substance’ which makes up what we call an electric field.  This substance is continuously and perpetually generated within charged particles and moves away ..................... This substance is a not a mathematical abstraction, but an actual physical substance that travels through space.  When it strikes another charged particle it exerts a force............

Who will believe this? And why?
Regards,
Tufail 

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-- 
Ruud LoeffenPaardestraat326131HC Sittardhttp://www.human-DNA.org
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