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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Doug,<br>
      <br>
          Questioning authority is one method I know of that gives us a
      chance to learn new stuff.  The Relativity<br>
      Paradigm has had a 'strangle hold' on the Physic world for a 100
      years.<br>
      <br>
           So it is a nice thing when Han will talk to me.  Exchanging
      questions is a good thing.  I thought his response<br>
      was a little blunt (but not necessary rude).<br>
      <br>
          Thanks for understanding my counter comment.  Since I can't
      counter his/their math, I am stuck with logic<br>
      and examples of evidence.  <br>
      <br>
          Best Regards,<br>
      <br>
              Norm<br>
      <br>
      On 1/16/2017 12:40 PM, Doug Marett wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAMSRO3QggRLT4uuEqB0V6VfhXH2NtpYu4+3_eYeeg0iA_Tn8Cg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>
          <div>Hi Norm,<br>
            <br>
          </div>
              I agree with you Norm! I actually felt that Han's initial
          response to you was unnecessarily rude : )<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        Doug<br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Norm
          Silliman <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:silliman@mindsync.com" target="_blank">silliman@mindsync.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <div class="m_2861232580907942539moz-cite-prefix">Hans van
                Leunen,<br>
                <br>
                    Thank you for the observation (and for the pun).  If
                the Gravity Model (part of Physics), needs to be done<br>
                with multidimensional differential calculus, why has a
                100 years gone by and the multidimensional differential
                <br>
                calculus people (there is estimated 1000's of them)
                failed to do the job.  And they didn't even get shamed
                for<br>
                failing.<br>
                <br>
                        Best Regards,<br>
                <br>
                        Norm
                <div>
                  <div class="h5"><br>
                    <br>
                    On 1/16/2017 4:26 AM, Hans van Leunen wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">Norman Silliman,
                    <div>You have silly thoughts. If there is one part
                      of physics that cannot do with proper mathematical
                      models, then it is gravity and especially inertia.</div>
                    <div>So if you want to dive into that subject then
                      you better learn enough about multidimensional
                      differential calculus. If you do not want to do
                      that, then you better select a different hobby
                      because with gravity without math you can only
                      make a fool of yourself.</div>
                    <div>Sincerely yours,</div>
                    <div>Hans van Leunen,</div>
                    <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://docs.com/hans-van-leunen"
                        target="_blank">docs.com/hans-van-leunen</a><br>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-right:0px;margin-left:15px">----Origineel
                        Bericht----<br>
                        Van : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="m_2861232580907942539moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                          href="mailto:silliman@mindsync.com"
                          target="_blank">silliman@mindsync.com</a><br>
                        Datum : 16/01/2017 00:04<br>
                        Aan : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="m_2861232580907942539moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                          href="mailto:physics@tuks.nl" target="_blank">physics@tuks.nl</a><br>
                        Onderwerp : Re: [Physics] Start up Task Force
                        Gravitation group<br>
                        <br>
                        <div
                          class="m_2861232580907942539moz-cite-prefix">
                          To Mr Abbas,  Serret and Loeffen, <br>
                          <br>
                              I am interested in participating  in this
                          topic of gravity.  I bring a group of
                          experimental evidence that <br>
                          I find useful for me to narrow down the
                          possibilities of what 'Gravity is' and how
                          'Gravity works'. <br>
                          BUT I come to you with grave doubts in the
                          utility of Mathematics to build theoretical 
                          models. <br>
                          <br>
                               And since gravity 'looks' exactly like
                          rocket acceleration and centrifuge
                          acceleration, the topic of gravity <br>
                          may bleed off into references of 'forces'. <br>
                          <br>
                              Norman Silliman <br>
                          <br>
                          On 1/15/2017 6:18 AM, Ruud Loeffen wrote: <br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote>
                          <div dir="ltr"> Dear colleagues.
                            <div> <br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>As announced
                                  earlier in my Email October 23 2016 I
                                  want to join forces on the topic of
                                  gravitation. I got confirmation from 3
                                  members. So, we are ready to start.<span></span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>We:<span></span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>Tufail
                                    Abbas:</span></b><span> Writer of
                                  Big Bathroom Universe- The universe is
                                  made of an stationary cubic lattice
                                  structure through which space and time
                                  moves, resulting into all matter and
                                  energy that we see.  By developing
                                  this framework of cubic lattice
                                  structure it has been envisioned that
                                  it would possible to express all
                                  physical properties (i.e. space, time,
                                  energy, charge, momentum, temperature,
                                  velocity, force etc.)  in terms of the
                                  geometric parameters (i.e. length,
                                  surface area, volume, angle,
                                  orientation, cycles) of the base
                                  structure. The force of gravity or any
                                  other force is caused due to movement
                                  of space through mass (or charge) to
                                  extra dimensions which is apparently
                                  observed as the state of rest in our
                                  optically visible dimensions.<br>
                                  <b>Olivier Serret:</b></span><font
                                  face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">engineer,
                                    holds up a neo-Newtonian approach:
                                    basically, it is the Newtonian
                                    mechanics, except than gravitational
                                    mass is different from the inertial
                                    mass. It allows to demonstrate the
                                    Lorentz factor</span><span
                                    class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-apple-converted-space"><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></span><span
style="line-height:107.0%;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">γ</span></font><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><font
                                    face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">,
                                    a new rule for the velocities
                                    addition, the synchrotron radiation
                                    and the perihelion precession of
                                    Mercury</font><span
                                    style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:black">(</span></span><span><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3xZ5r1hi9s"
title="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3xZ5r1hi9s" target="_blank"><em><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">https://www.youtube.<wbr>com/watch?v=-3xZ5r1hi9s</span></em></a></span><em><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">).
                                  </span></em><font face="arial,
                                  helvetica, sans-serif"><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">The
                                    interest of this theory is to be in
                                    coherence </span><span>with</span><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
                                    the universal time of the Quantum
                                    Mechanics (and of course of the
                                    Newtonian mechanics).</span></font><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br>
                                </span><b><span>Stavros Tassos:</span></b><span></span><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Writer
                                  of the Excess Mass Stress Tectonics -
                                  EMST model, whereby the waving at
                                  light speed c=299792458 m/s and under
                                  constant stretching space is the
                                  infinite source of all mass. Energy
                                  and matter are sine waveforms of local
                                  anisotropy in the elastic, large-scale
                                  isotropic continuum, which is lossless
                                  and has infinite elasticity to any
                                  velocity lower than c, and infinite
                                  rigidity to any velocity equal or
                                  greater than c. Earth's inner core is
                                  an equilibrium high tension-frequency
                                  location, wherein energy - unpaired
                                  standing or travelling waves transform
                                  into matter - paired standing waves
                                  which are added, in a solid-state,
                                  atom-by-atom around the core.</span><b><i><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:107.0%;font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span></span></span></i></b></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>Ruud
                                    Loeffen:</span></b><span> The
                                  central question of my studies has
                                  always been “How does the human mind
                                  perceive the surrounding world and
                                  regulate the interaction between human
                                  beings and the environment?” Another
                                  item I studied is gravitation and
                                  cosmology, writing a booklet about
                                  this: "Mind-blowing Gravitation.
                                  Gravitation equals expansion" to
                                  demonstrate the possibility that the
                                  Lorentz transformation of mass-energy
                                  could play a key role in expansion of
                                  matter. To gain cooperation on the
                                  topic of Gravitation I support this
                                  start up on Gravitation.<span></span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:107.0%"><br>
                                  </span></b></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:107.0%">Our
                                    purpose:<span></span></span></b></p>
                              <p
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"><span>1.<span
style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7.0pt;line-height:normal">      
                                  </span></span><span>We will form a <b>“Task
                                    Force Gravitation” </b>with 4 – 7
                                  members with a widespread range of
                                  sciences. </span><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:107.0%;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Members
                                  of this Task Force are willing to<font
                                    color="#000000"> </font></span><font
                                  color="#000000"><strong><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">share
                                      their criticism</span></strong><span
style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> <b>about
                                      the current explanations of
                                      Gravitation</b></span><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:107.0%;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><b>,
                                      and exchange their ideas,
                                      equations and calculations<span
                                        class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-apple-converted-space"> </span>about
                                      Gravitation</b></span></font><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:107.0%;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><b><font
                                      color="#000000">.</font>  Members
                                    also must be willing to let lose the
                                    own theory</b>. (period: January 16
                                  - February 1)</span><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span><span><span></span></span></p>
                              <p
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span>2.<span
style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7.0pt;line-height:normal">      
                                  </span></span><span>We will prepare a
                                  document <b>“Startup Gravitation”</b>
                                  that should provide a brief overview
                                  of status regarding understanding of
                                  gravity and the proposed way forward.
                                  We will try to create a new paper.
                                  Probably we need some elements of
                                  different theories to put together.
                                  Some parts to combine, some parts to
                                  throw away, some parts to change.
                                  (period February 1 - April 1)<span></span></span></p>
                              <p
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"><span>3.<span
style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7.0pt;line-height:normal">      
                                  </span></span><span>We will write a
                                  document <b>“Foundation for
                                    gravitation”. </b><br>
                                  It's about macro objects and
                                  elementary particles, radiation, waves
                                  and the aether field. Macro and micro
                                  should connect as gravity starts at
                                  the center of the nucleus and extends
                                  to farthest region of the Universe.
                                  Most important aim is to find <b>irrefutable
                                    evidence</b> for this theory that
                                  gives solid base and is understandable
                                  for laymen and journalists.</span><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:107.0%;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">
                                  (period April 1 - December 1)</span><span><span></span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>We welcome
                                  somebody with knowledge of following
                                  mathematical stuff as related to
                                  physics: Vector Algebra, Riemann
                                  Geometry, Complex Numbers, Various
                                  derivations of Pi, Circumference of
                                  Ellipse, Zeta Function, Hilbert
                                  Spaces.<span></span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;line-height:107.0%;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">possible
                                  connections with theories of other
                                  members</span><span>:<span></span></span></p>
                              <p
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"><span>a)<span
style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7.0pt;line-height:normal">      
                                  </span></span><span>Constant length of
                                  photon and transformation from
                                  Euclidean to space-time format; Hans
                                  van Leunen<span></span></span></p>
                              <p
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span>b)<span
style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7.0pt;line-height:normal">     
                                  </span></span><span>acceleration and
                                  gravitation; Mike Lawrence<span></span></span></p>
                              <p
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"><span>c)<span
style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7.0pt;line-height:normal">      
                                  </span></span><span>aether and field;
                                  vortex phenomena Arend Lammertink<span></span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>We will welcome
                                  members who want to join this Task
                                  Force. Please pay attention to point
                                  1: "Members also must be willing to
                                  let lose the own theory”.</span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
                                </span></p>
                              <div style="font-size:12.8px"> From  <span
                                  style="font-size:12.8px">January 16 -
                                  February 1 we aim to make our group
                                  definitive. </span> </div>
                              <div style="font-size:12.8px"> <span
                                  style="font-size:12.8px">In the next
                                  step </span> <b
                                  style="font-size:12.8px">“Startup
                                  Gravitation” </b> <span
                                  style="font-size:12.8px">(period
                                  February 1 - April 1)</span> <font
                                  color="#000000"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.8px"> I will
                                    make a list of questions for step 2,
                                    that the members can edit also.</span><span
                                    style="font-size:12.8px"> To
                                    continue to step 3 (the document) we
                                    will make an outline for the
                                    document with all relevant chapters
                                    and especially we will try to find </span></font>
                                <span style="font-size:12.8px"><b>irrefutable
                                    evidence</b> for this theory that
                                  gives solid base and is understandable
                                  for laymen and journalists.</span> <span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:13.5533px;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> (period
                                  April 1 - December 15).</span> </div>
                              <div style="font-size:12.8px"> <span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:13.5533px;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br>
                                </span> </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:13.5533px;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">If
                                    we want to change the steps 1 -3 or
                                    to change the periods, we can do
                                    also. </span><span
                                    style="font-size:12.6667px">For
                                    every step members of the TFG are
                                    invited to help determine the
                                    outlines.</span> <span></span></span></p>
                              <div> <br>
                              </div>
                              -- <br>
                              <div
                                class="m_2861232580907942539gmail_signature">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div dir="ltr"> <font face="comic
                                      sans ms, sans-serif" size="2"><b>Ruud
                                        Loeffen on behalf of Tufail
                                        Abbas, Olivier Serret, Stavros
                                        Tassos.</b></font>
                                    <div> <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <br>
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