<div dir="auto"><div><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:'helveticaneue','helvetica neue','helvetica','arial','lucida grande',sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">Ok! Then please remove the name of Mr. Higgs from the discussion. </span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:'helveticaneue','helvetica neue','helvetica','arial','lucida grande',sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:'helveticaneue','helvetica neue','helvetica','arial','lucida grande',sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">Please note that I am not talking here about Higgs PARTICLE, but only a FIELD (call it by any name) which is not moving irrespective of how we are moving. And movement wrt such a field is responsible for increase in mass of object. Now some people may call the same background as isotropic continuum, some may call it by the name aether, some say it is Space-time. If we are able to reach to the essence and produce exact physical description and cause of such background, then we may be able to realize that these are just different names for same background.</span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:'helveticaneue','helvetica neue','helvetica','arial','lucida grande',sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><font face="helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">So that was about meaningfulness abount bringing in Higgs FIELD into discussion. Otherwise, I am also not convinced with presence of a new PARTICLE to explain the Mass Gain. </span></font></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><font face="helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><font face="helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thanks for your kind understanding.</span></font></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><font face="helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><font face="helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Tufail </span></font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 10, 2017 4:47 PM, "Stavros Tassos" <<a href="mailto:s.tassos@yahoo.com">s.tassos@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292"><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_7751"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px" id="m_-1076046931036450617yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_7750"><div dir="ltr" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_3377"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_3507">If we agree that the above mentioned statements and their consequences correspond to actuality, then any discussion about Higgs particles, fields and the like is not only meaningless but disorienting.</span></div><font color="#888888"><div dir="ltr" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_3377"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_3377"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_9685">Stavros</span></div> <div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-1076046931036450617yui_3_16_0_1_1497098056063_7753"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></font></div></div></div><div class="elided-text"><div class="m_-1076046931036450617.yiv9415688292yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div class="m_-1076046931036450617qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqt7794010193" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqtfd68096"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:32 PM, Tufail Abbas <<a href="mailto:tufail.abbas@gmail.com" target="_blank">tufail.abbas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292y_msg_container"><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292"><div><div><div>Dear All </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I also agree in principle to the following statements from Stavros Message, based upon reading his paper Z-Infinity. </div><div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">1. Space-time is everything.</span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">2. Empty space does not exist as a physical entity.</span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">3. S</span><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">pace and time exist as physical entities.</span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">4. Space-time has a cyclic and a unidirectional component.</span><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br clear="none"></span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">5. Space-time is a waving continuum and </span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">is curved because of its waving nature.</span><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">6. Space-time is absolutely elastic</span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> at speed < c, and absolutely rigid for any speed >= c.</span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><span>Physicist Matt Strassler made a very important statement as follows, regarding Higgs Fields and Space-time at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/the-higgs-particle/the-higgs-faq-2-0/" target="_blank">https://profmattstrassler. com/articles-and-posts/the- higgs-particle/the-higgs-faq- 2-0/</a></span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><div dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br clear="none"></div><span style="font-size:11pt">“No matter how you are moving, you are not moving relative to the Higgs field. That sounds bizarre, but remember something else bizarre: that no matter how you are moving, light is moving about relative to you at the same speed, namely 300,000 meters per second. Our intuition for space and time is not correct — that’s what Einstein figured out — and it is possible for there to be fields that are at rest with respect to all observers!”</span><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br clear="none"></span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote">What are your thoughts on the above.</div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote">Regards</div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote">Tufail Abbas</div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292gmail_quote">On Jun 10, 2017 1:34 PM, "Stavros Tassos" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:s.tassos@yahoo.com" target="_blank">s.tassos@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqt6306568702" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqt70907"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_5837">Dear all</span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_5503">A few comments that demonstrate my thoughts about space-time and gravity.</span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_11109">1. Space-time is everything, </span>is the infinite repository of all mass, in the form of energy (uncoupled standing waves) and matter (coupled standing waves). </div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773">2. The cause and effect relationship is omnipresent, and logic is the reflection of it in our minds. </div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_11397">3. Empty space does not exist as a physical entity. S</span>pace and time exist as physical entities because space is filled with mass. If there was no mass and no inertia, i.e., empty space, the cause and effect will occur immediately, i.e., at zero time and zero space. Another consequence of space being filled with mass-inertia is that light speed is the maximum speed with which space can deform. </div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_9106">4. Space-time is absolutely elastic up to the light speed, and absolutely rigid for any speed equal or greater than that. </span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_6493">5. Space-time is a waving continuum, i.e., sinusoidal wave, and discrete particles do not exist as physical entities. </span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_12597">6. Space-time is curved because of its waving nature.</span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_6813">7. Because of the waving, material and infinite nature of space-time, each wave, regardless of its wavelength, is the materialization of infinity, and space-time is under constant stretching, and this is gravity all about.</span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_7657">8. Due to the above, space-time has a cyclic and a unidirectional component, which is due to its constant stretching, moving from lower to higher frequencies. This in physical terms means that in the same absolute space we have more waves, like stretching the cord of a guitar, the coupled standing waves (matter) being the structural units of all material objects, thus giving the physical meaning to the notion of evolution and increased complexity with time. </span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_12722">Regards</span></div><font color="#888888"></font><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_3773"><span id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yui_3_16_0_1_1497081366621_11943">Stavros Tassos </span></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427elided-text"> <div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yahoo_quoted" style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:30 AM, Ilja Schmelzer <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:ilja.schmelzer@gmail.com" target="_blank">ilja.schmelzer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865y_msg_container"><div dir="ltr">2017-06-09 21:23 GMT+02:00, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">carmam@tiscali.co.uk</a> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">carmam@tiscali.co.uk</a>>:<br clear="none">> Hi Ilja. Space does not distort time or clock showings (readings).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Of course, it is only the spacetime interpretation which names the<br clear="none">gravitational field "spacetime", which makes such claims.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">But, of course, there is a gravitational field everywhere, even where<br clear="none">we have no other particles. Talk about empty space makes no real<br clear="none">sense, given that we have various fields (not only gravity, also the<br clear="none">EM field and all the other fields of the SM) everywhere.<div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yqt2501454431" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292m_-6899310427060208556m_4032448947277960046m_-609677092929534512m_-1903527824283159427m_-4084650880068109865yqtfd83180"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">Physics mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">Physics@tuks.nl</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://mail.tuks.nl/cgi-bin/ma ilman/listinfo/physics</a><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqt7794010193" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqtfd76909"> </div></div><div class="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqt7794010193" id="m_-1076046931036450617yiv9415688292yqtfd53283"> </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>