[Physics] Physics Digest, Vol 2, Issue 4

[Doug Marett]

Hi Carl,

    Are you saying a guy moving at 1000 mph around the equator will show no
time dilation compared to a guy standing still? That would be in direct
contradiction to the Hafele and Keating results... is that what you are
saying?
Anyway, why would you say the Hafele and Keating experiment failed? The
experimental results are what they are, if they don't conform to your
theory, that is a problem for the theory, not the experiment.

Doug





On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 12:01 PM, <cj at mb-soft.com> wrote:

> You need to be more careful in your assumptions regarding your A and B
> clocks.
>
> There are two very different situations, which require rather different
> math.  The experiment I have tried to get NASA and ESA to do, and in two
> years, hope to get Japan's JAXA to do, of soft-landing a Cesium clock on
> the surface of the Moon.  This is specifically a "mind experiment of
> Einstein" where the Equivalency Principle centrally applies (and SR and
> Time Dilation does not).  The two situations have DIFFERENT gravitational
> fields (by a facttor od about six).  The Equivalency Principle easily
> calculates that (permanent difference) of GR on the surface of the Earth
> and Moon.  I encourage you to do the calculation again, where I get that
> the Earth Cesium Clock will count 10,976 times more ticks every hour.  NO
> SR effects occur in that expewriment.
>
> The other sort of experiment which may be done is like for the guy
> standing at the Earth's Equator.  BOTH forms of Relativity exist for him.
> He is racing around the Earth at over 1,000 mph (velocity) by which we
> calculate the SR time-rate effect (using Lorentz) due to velocity.  We
> separately must calculate his downward centripetal force (the ACCELERATION
> he constantly experiences) to determine his Equivalency Principle.  As
> noted earlier, amazingly, those two very precise time-rate factors EXACTLY
> cancel each other out.
>
> Yes, it IS possible to do both of those Relativity calculations from a
> Non-Inertial Reference Frame, such as from London, but the math is then
> really obscure, as you then have to use either Hyperbolic or Elliptic
> Geometry.  It DOES still show that both effects still cancel each other
> out, whether for the Equator or for any other location on Earth.
>
> I chose having an Observer at the North Pole and the "Traveler" standing
> at the Equator because I thought the math might seem more easily digested
> in using Euclidean math.
>
> I wish to apologize to you annd others.  I am fairly old and I have pretty
> severe Parkinson's Tremors, and so my keyboard seems to like to include
> duplicate letters.  I actually know how to spell, but my fingers don't
> always cooperate.
>
> In any case, your A and B example can therefore be describing two very
> different situations.  One (Moon and Earth) ONLY involves GR, and your A
> and B then only works in one direction.  The other, for any person or
> object like orbiting at our Equator, then BOTH forms of Relativity applies,
> but the two effects exactly cancel each other out, so A = B and B = A.
>
> Please note that your arrangement of your experimental apparatus requires
> additional definition, to more correctly define the difference or
> similarity of your A and B clocks.
>
> In the '60s, NASA did not understand this and they "totally ignored GR" in
> many satellite experiments and also in the Hafele jet airplane experiment
> (all of which failed" .  You have certainly informed kids that "walking
> straight west" forever, includes you ALSO curving downward as you walk.
> Ditto for the jet airplanes, which forever curved downward (thereby
> accewlerating and thereby invoking GR).
>
> Did I help clarify the subject?  Even most Theoretical Physicists do not
> fully understand General Relativity, and for decades, I have been
> frustrated in trying to explain this stuff, even to them.
>
> Carl Johnson
>
>
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