[Physics] Real Time

[Doug Marett]

Hi Carl,

    I think your point is already well known - that all observers
"stationary" at sea level experience the same rate of time dilation - I
wrote for example in my 2010 article on time dilation:



*"Applying a model of time dilation to the earth is considerably more
complicated. Einstein in his 1905 article
<http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/pdf/Einstein-On_the_Electrodynamics_of_Moving_Bodies.pdf>
argued that an observer on the equator would experience more time dilation
due to their rotation at v2/2c2, as compared to an observer at the pole.
This has been now shown not to be true; - the rate of clocks at sea level
(or more precisely, on earth's geoid <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid>
surface) all count at the same rate all over the globe. The reason for this
is that the two competing time dilation effects, gravitational time
dilation and velocity time dilation, cancel out. The conventional argument
goes that earth is an oblate sphere due to the equator bulging out from the
centrifugal force. Since the pole is closer to the center than the equator,
the pole is at a larger negative gravitational potential -GM/r, and thus
experiences a larger time dilation gh/c2 than the equator. However, since
the equator observer is rotating at the tangential velocity v, they
experience a counter-acting velocity time dilation v2/2c2, which is
sometimes referred to as the centripetal term. The height effect at the
pole is almost twice as large as the velocity effect at the equator; the
argument is then that the distribution of mass in the earth due to its
oblateness creates additional gravitational forces that serve to balance
this out. This last term is the gravitational quadrupole term. When all
three terms are added together, the time dilation on the geoid is the same
rate everywhere on the globe. " -  this explanation was derived directly
from Ashby's papers as I recall. *


*I think the real problem is that you dispute the existence of the Sagnac
effect - this is something different than the above, namely the Sagnac
effect arises when a beam of light, or a clock, rotates with respect to the
"fixed stars", and if that rate of rotation differs from your "stationary"
observer on the earth, then there is an observable effect (clocks change
their rate, light beams change their arrival time). The Sagnac effect is
not relativistic as it dominates at low velocities. *

*Doug*

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 11:12 AM, <cj at mb-soft.com> wrote:

> Your group certainly has many creative ideas regarding Einstein and
> Relativity.  Unfortunately, nearly all of the assumptions are not correct.
>
> The Earth provides wonderful evidence for us, moostly because we have
> really accurate data rwegarding its (Equatorial) diameter and its precise
> sidereal rotation period.
>
> Specifically regarding your discussions:
>
> Someone standing at the North Pole does not have "velocity" nor
> "acceleration" and so the Lorentz-Fitzgerald (beta) factor is exactly ONE.
> (velocity is ZERO).
>
> Fine.  The more interesting situation is for a man standing at the
> Equator.  He DOES have a precisely known (v) there and so it is easy to
> calculate the Time Dilation Factor to be *0.999 999 999 998 796 560*
>
> And so everyone ASSUMES that he would EXPERIENCE Time Dilation there.
> There are TWO major errors in those assumptions.  (a) HE would not
> experience any Relativity issues, and only the OBSERVER at the North Pole
> (motionless) would SEE any such effects.  Nearly everyone is wrong about
> this error.
>
> (b) the other error in assumptions is due to everyone IGNORING General
> Relativity, which happens to have its own time-rate effect.  It is called
> the Equivalency Principle.  (Surprisingly) this effect happens to be the
> OPPOSITE of Special Relativity's Time Dilation.  Thaht calculation (onn
> Earth) is also easy and precise to  do, and it is *1.000 000 000 001 203
> 440*
>
> Oddly enough, since BOTH Relativity time-rate effects must constantly
> apply to our guy att the Equator, we must MULTIPLY these two effects to
> find the ACTUAL Relativity time-rate effect for that guy at the Equator.
> That simple product is EXACTLY ONE.
>
> In other words, the ACTUAL effect due to BOTH forms of Relativity exactly
> cancel each other out.  There is NO DIFFERENCE in time rate between the guy
> at the North Pole nd anyone at the Equator, or anywhere else on Earth.
>
> Only when someone is in a Non-Inertial Reat Frame, that is, accelerating,
> will an OBSERVER see any time-rate effects.
>
> A complete explanation is at http://mb-soft.com/public4/dilation.html
>
> Carl Johnson
> (A Theoretical Physicist, educated at the University of Chicago)
>
>
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>
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